Interview with Kaidi Zhou and Julie Liu of MyStar ABA (China)

Ximing Huang (Extern)
Association for Science in Autism Treatment

It was a great pleasure to talk with Kaidi Zhou, MEd, BCBA, and Julie Liu, MEd, BCBA, the founders of MyStar ABA. MyStar ABA has been providing evidence-based treatments and consistent training and supervision for professionals and caregivers in China, passing the most updated information regarding autism treatments to the Chinese population. In this interview, we learned about the differences between ABA services in China and United States, and we gained more understanding on the hardship that autism families face in China.

Ximing: Kaidi and Julie, how did you first enter the autism intervention and special education field?

Kaidi Zhou at Work

Kaidi: During my undergraduate period in China, I volunteered in a camp called Bring Me Hope, a summer camp specialized for orphans with autism and other developmental disabilities. That experience made me eager to learn more about kids with developmental disabilities. I have been especially interested in autism as it is not a popular topic in China and people often have many misunderstandings about it.

Julie: During my visit to the United States eight years ago, I met someone my age with apraxia, a speech disorder. Since then, I have felt a strong connection with this group and a great curiosity that drives me to learn more about them. Then I figured out how to obtain such knowledge through the Early Childhood Special Education program at University of Texas, Austin (UT Austin).

Ximing: I can totally relate to Kaidi’s experience. Growing up as a kid in China, I had little knowledge about what autism was. My understanding of autism at that time mainly came from movies and TV shows. I had this biased and twisted image about what autism should be like until I started working in this field and understanding how individuals with autism can be distinct from each other. Could you share your background and your current job position with our subscribers?

Kaidi: I met Julie in the first class at the UT Austin, where we attended the same Early Childhood Education and Special Education graduate program. We went to the same practicum and worked at a local autism school, and both ended up working at Children’s Autism Center in Austin, Texas. In 2017, we both received our BCBA certification at the same time! On this journey, we have always been helping and supporting each other.

Julie Liu at Work

Julie: Fast forward to Christmas in 2019. By that time, we had been working in this field for a couple of years, and we started building connections with parents, professionals, and agencies in China and getting to know about autism interventions in China. I had this discussion with Kaidi about whether we should create a new platform where we can tutor, consult, and share our experience and knowledge in the Chinese community. We founded MyStar ABA in December 2019. We first started our podcast “ABA for Life on Himalaya” (editor note: one of the most used podcast platforms in China), where we talked about autism interventions. We now have 10,000 subscribers. We then started to create courses on the Verbal Behavior-Milestones (VB-MAPP) and other assessments. We started providing supervision for agencies and service providers in China. We have probably supervised more than a quarter of the BCBAs and BCaBAs in China, and we consistently collaborate with 27 agencies. Last year was a year to celebrate! Kaidi and I went back to China, and we visited more than ten agencies and provided onsite training for three months. We had our first conference, where we talked about how to use ABA in both contrived and naturalistic environments etc., and more than one hundred people participated in this training. In 2022, we started our TikTok channel, and we have been creating short videos and holding lives events.

Ximing: It’s impressive how much you have achieved in the past few years. We love to see how like-minded people support each other and work together to disseminate evidence-based interventions. However, it is such a brave decision you made to provide service in China. What were some obstacles you encountered since the beginning?

Kaidi: There were a lot of challenges when we first started. We restricted our service group to professionals in China for the first few years and gradually
broadened our service group to include parents. However, no matter which group we were facing, whether they were parents or professionals in the field of autism treatments for decades, we often end up with the same problem–the lack of solid understanding of the principles of ABA (i.e., pairing and building rapport with the kids). Without a clear understanding of the foundation of ABA, it would be nearly impossible to discuss more advanced topics. Nowadays, people are impatient and often expect a quick improvement and recovery of their kids. Many only focus on academic achievement while the kids work on obtaining fundamental skills.

Julie: We must keep in mind that this whole field of ABA is relatively young. But the ABA service in China seems like what ABA was 50 years ago. The teaching style is outdated. In recent years, ABA in the United States has become more flexible, humane, and motivation-driven, whereas, in China, kids often come to the clinic and end up spending a few hours working exclusively in a small room. Until now, the biggest obstacle in China is that many people still have the opinion that ABA is not the way to go. People misrepresent ABA as inflexible, rigid, and robotic. Chinese parents are often on edge about how many goals their kids hit daily, while people in the states allow the time for the kids and therapist to pair and build rapport. We also made a podcast on how ABA service differs in China from here.

Ximing: It’s excellent that MyStar can identify cultural differences and adjust your focus and style based on people’s needs. MyStar has been through some challenges as the pioneer in promoting structuralized science-based autism treatments in China. Meanwhile, what are some hardships that the Chinese autism community is facing?

Kaidi: There are a lot of challenges for Chinese families who have children with autism. As reimbursement for ABA services is often unavailable in China, the high cost of sessions is causing financial stress. Usually, only one parent will have a stable job so the other can stay with their child, which often worsens the financial situation. Furthermore, the sad part is that even if parents can afford the pricey sessions, finding a high-quality ABA agency is challenging. Many ABA agencies may seem legit with a well-done website and a grand facility, but their service may be poor in quality or otherwise problematic. Sometimes, you will see treatments that lack scientific support being used at the clinics, including music therapy or professions that are not fully recognized in China appear in the clinics.

Julie: On top of that are the lack of resources. Besides what Kaidi just mentioned about the scarcity of excellent ABA agencies, there are only about 300 BCBAs in total in China, serving over 10 million individuals with autism. It’s difficult for BCBAs to find experienced supervisors, and sometimes, supervision is costly. Additionally, some Chinese parents push a bit too hard. One thing I hope parents in China realize is that interventions are not limited to Discrete Trial Training (DTT) or the time the kids spend at the table. Instead, interventions go through the whole life, and learning opportunities exist every second, from potty time to mealtime. It can be so beneficial if parents can be more open-minded and realize learning can take place anywhere at any moment.

Kaidi: Adding to all we mentioned, another challenge that Chinese parents are facing is how to filter out good information. Many interventions are not backed by science, and parents can easily get lost. Parents have their kids undergo treatments they see on social media that help other families. Sometimes we feel overwhelmed by how to guide those strong-minded parents to look for science-based evidence.

Ximing: Certainly! It is sad to know autistic families in China are having difficulty accessing trustworthy, high-quality, evidence-based service and being able to afford it. The difficulty of sourcing evidence-based treatments is absolutely something we can all relate to, and it’s also ASAT’s mission to respond to media misportrayals of autism and its treatments. We know that MyStar ABA has been disseminating science-based information regarding autism treatments in China. Could you share with us how it started and where you are now?

Kaidi: We spent the first two years providing service to professionals in China, but we soon realized that it was far from enough. Although we kept training more professionals, it had never met the demand. We then decided that we would reach out to parents because kids cannot be waiting a long time or for this field to grow in China. We have also seen many parents quit their jobs, and attend ABA graduate programs– their motivations are evident and admirable. Therefore, we decided to reach out to parents through the most popular social media platforms, including TikTok, Xiaohongshu, and Wechat. Now, we have a great balance between making public-accessible content and supporting professional agencies.

Julie: We thought training teachers would be the most efficient way to improve the quality of ABA service in China, as they influence many parents. But we then realized that parents are the biggest group in need in China. We also wanted to reach out to parents to ensure the authenticity of the knowledge that is being conveyed. As short videos in recent years have become the most stylish and efficient way to deliver information, we decided to give it a try, and it has been working well.

Thank you so much for sharing your perspectives, journey, and insight about the state of autism treatment in China with our readers. Your collaborative and innovative way of disseminating evidence-based treatment to families and practitioners in China is inspiring and encouraging.

Citation for this article:

Huang, X. (2022). An Interview with Kaidi Zhou and Julie Liu of MyStar ABA (China) Science in Autism Treatment, 19(10).

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